Using a Hypertherm torch with an other brand cutter

[Retro]

Hello there,
i tried serveral times now to get a Powermax 85 or higher but the seller always disappeard. Only thing i manged to buy was a 15,2 m long short Duramax Torch for 200 bucks which is a good price i would say.
Still i don't have a Hypertherm power source. Only my old Kjellberg Cutter. Does it make any sense thinking about to connect both of them? My Kjellberg is watercooled but i can work around that and short circuit the water. It has obviously an air line, two water lines and a cable for the cutting current. The machine got 3 stages (25A, 40A and 60A).
Is it possible to use it with confidence until i have a Hypertherm power source?

[weldguy]

I expect you could make it work, have seen others get them connected to different machines with success. It has more to do with how long it will take and if that makes it worth it. If the current torch is cutting ok I would stick with that, if your dead in the water and need a torch to get cutting than it may be worth it.

[Retro]

I've got a working torch, yes. But it doesn't cut that well after all and the consumables don't hold that long than a Hypertherm Consumable will.
But the question is, will it work with that HF ignition?

[weldguy]

I am not sure, good question. Maybe someone else will chime in here.

[Retro]

Then lets stay tuned...

[Geanvert]

hello, I have the exact same question to use on a jasic esaycut 80A. So this topic is very interesting.

[acourtjester]

First is the fact the Hypertherm torch is a Blow back type torch, and this requires the Plasma power unit to have the circuits to use that type of a ignition. This is part of the air supply to the torch. If your unit does not have that operational system built in you cannot mix torches. As to the short hypertherm mechine torch and the standard machine torch the difference is a long spacer (removable) in the long version to make a short version. I converted one and here are the parts for a short torch with the long space missing.

DSCN1655.JPG

[Retro]

My Kjellberg has a HF Ignition. The Air comes by a magnet valve and goes directly to the torch.
I can turn off the HF by disconnecting the wires. But how does the blow back work? Maybe i can figure it out how to wire it up.

[acourtjester]

the Blow Back is a mechanical action no rewiring to do. The air pressure at the start causes the internal parts of the torch to separate and an arc is caused which starts the Plasma action.

hypertherm electrode.JPG

[Retro]

I hope it works wothout the HF. I cant tell if its needed to start the arc with the blow back ignition. I dont know if the full current is always there after pulling trigger or if it starts after the HF.

[acourtjester]

There is a good chance you will destroy the Hypertherm torch if you continue

[Retro]

What should be the case at the power source to make it work?

[PlasmaDon]

My Kjellberg has a HF Ignition. The Air comes by a magnet valve and goes directly to the torch.
I can turn off the HF by disconnecting the wires. But how does the blow back work? Maybe i can figure it out how to wire it up.

Put a p-80 machine torch on it, I found one with a 10 meter (33' long) lead for under $100 on alixpress.
will the cut be as good as the hypertherm torch ? NO.
But as above, the Hypertherm torch is a nogo.

[Retro]

On the other hand i could keep the original torch then. If the P80 would cut better it would be an improvement. Thats why I wanted to buy the hypertherm stuff.
Is the cut quality depending on the plasma source or the torch?

[PlasmaDon]

On the other hand i could keep the original torch then. If the P80 would cut better it would be an improvement. Thats why I wanted to buy the hypertherm stuff.
Is the cut quality depending on the plasma source or the torch?

I thought you did not have any torch on the machine, hence the purchase of the short hypertherm one.

[Retro]

No, i already have the original one by Kjellberg. I just wanted to upgrade to a Hypertherm cutter, since my machine is nearly 30 years old. But the seller jumped off the purchase so i only have the hypertherm torch.

[PlasmaDon]

No, i already have the original one by Kjellberg. I just wanted to upgrade to a Hypertherm cutter, since my machine is nearly 30 years old. But the seller jumped off the purchase so i only have the hypertherm torch.

I don't know if the cut from a P-80 can be any better than what you have, but maybe the consumable cost's would be less ?
I've been making my own chart for the P-80, and 1/2" thick is about it for thickness, and sometimes the edge angle is pretty bad.
I've just received some "premium" electrodes, and they do look better concentricity, we shall see what we can achieve on the
1/2" plate.

[jimcolt]

Just a couple of notes regarding using a Hypertherm torch with another brand cutter.

1. Hypertherm designed and patented the "blowback start technology" in the early 1980's with the goal of eliminating the high frequency discharge starting technology that virtually all plasma torches have used since around 1960. There also are a few torches with an iteration called blow forward that was used in a couple of Hypertherm systems.....though that style was short lived. Blowback technology uses a torch and electrode design that uses air pressure to move the electrode upwards in the torch during the start phase of the torch. Before the electrode moves the DC output of the power supply activates at a current controlled power level .....creating a dead short inside the torch between the positive nozzle and negative electrode. Air pressure in the torch then increases and pushes the electrode back away from the nozzle effectively opening the short circuit, creating an arc inside the torch. The arc ionizes the air that is flowing between the electrode and nozzle....which increases the electrical conductivity of the air. The power supply ramps up its power level and air pressure output and forces this ionized air arc through the nozzle orifice.....creating a "pilot arc" that is visible at the nozzle exit orifice. If the pilot arc is close enough to the workpiece (which is connected to the positive output of the power supply by the work cable) the arc will transfer to the workpiece.....this is sensed by the power supply, which then ramps up the power output to the preset (by the operator) amperage and the cutting process begins.

2. To get the best performance in terms of electrode / nozzle life the ramp up of the plasma cutter power is critical. If the power supply gets to full output power to quickly....expect immediate electrode and nozzle damage / failure.

3. Hypertherm designs the torch, the consumables, and the power supply to all work together.....the engineering team for the torch, the consumables and the power supplies are all working under one roof to ensure the best cut quality, the longest consumable life, and safety of the plasma torch operator. Open circuit voltage in modern plasma cutters can be as much as 400 volts DC, though most inverter based air plasma cutters typically produce 200 volts DC or less.

4. There are a number of experimenters that have adapted blowback style Hypertherm torches to power supplies that were not built by Hypertherm, myself included, though I worked for Hypertherm. Typically you can get this technology to work on other systems, though the most common issues involve misfiring and extremely short consumable parts life......as well as occasional sparks and fire out of the power supply (generally a plasma power supply that is designed for high frequency start is not very tolerant of the "dead short" that is present when a blowback torch is attached!).

So, yes in reality you could put a blowback torch on a high frequency start plasma. I recommend against it based on safety (high voltage, high temperatures, etc.). Be happy to answer questions.....but I will defer from helping with this type of installation for obvious reasons! Jim Colt

[Retro]

Alright. Thanks for that!
So i will have to continue the search for a reasonable price of the Hypertherm.