Reduced speed settings

[Kentuckyfarmer]

Did hypertherm have reduced speed settings for machines that could not maintain high IPM on thin material.
If so where can I find them.
Thanks Mike

[CNCCAJUN]

Yes, they are in your manual if it is a newer machine.

They are "Low Speed for Fine Cut Consumables" and appear to work well.

My table is a DYNATORCH 4X4 XLS that has a top speed of 200" IPM.

Still learning, been cutting less than a week, but have cut 16 GA almost "zero dross" using the charts.

Go to Hypertherm Website and download the manual for your machine.

The current manual will have a page for this.

Beyond the charts, I believe from reading Jim Colts post that any cut is possible if you set all the parameters "just right".

Pierce Height - Cut Height - Speed - Amps - Consumables - Kerf Size . . . . a lot of variables . .

Steve

[jimcolt]

As CNC Cajun suggests....let us know what plasma model, and we can help you out. There are "low speed" (under 150 IPM) cut charts in the operators manuals for the Powermax65, 85 and 105 systems.

Jim Colt

Did hypertherm have reduced speed settings for machines that could not maintain high IPM on thin material.
If so where can I find them.
Thanks Mike

[Kentuckyfarmer]

Thanks Jim powwermax 65 I will look on line I don't recall seeing them in my book, Ive had my machine 2 or 3 years
I will check online manual.
Thanks Mike

[CNCCAJUN]

Page 3-41 & 3-42 in the new Manual Revision 2.

Steve

[Brand X]

Not to be smart,but seems like is Hypertherm should make a smaller nozzle for slow speed fine cuts. Something to match the 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 machines. I only say that,because I have great success running 20-30 amp ones in my Easb Powercut 1600. (PT-37) Keeps the speed down on my table when cutting .035 etc.. 15 amp low end allows me use 20 or so amps output, to be in the 120/130 ipm range easy..I think a nozzle like what comes on the 30XP would be the ticket for smaller kerf, and slower speeds.The 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 might get in the way of any real benefit? I get about zero distortion/no dross, and tiny kerf with that setup. I also use exposed nozzles for the low amp tips. Last for ever because there is zero blow-back on the thin stuff. I have a Victor A-120 , and they have some 20-30 amp tips (20-30) are the same office size on the Thermal machines. Don't think there is a chance to have much success with the Victor's 30 amp low-end. Have not hooked that machine up yet, but had other Thermal units..

Anyway, just wanted to figure out why the 30XP has 25 amp fine tips, and the flagship 85 has 45 amp fine cuts? I just think there is some room for improvement in matching things up. (IMO)

[jimcolt]

The 30XP definitely has an advantage with narrower kerf width with its smaller FineCut nozzle orifice. There is no part in a Hypertherm called a tip....so when someone refers to a tip ...it is a nozzle on our systems.

When our engineers designed the consumables for the Powermax65, 85 and 105 torches they knew they needed to be able to cut down to 26 gauge materials with these systems, especially in mechanized cutting applications. They designed the Finecut consumables and the original cut speeds were fine for the in house testing in our development labs (machines have high accuracy to 400 ipm), however as the market for lower cost cnc machines expanded....especially with a lot of home built machines...the performance in terms of speed, acceleration and the ability to stay on the cut path (we call it "following error") gets more difficult as speed increases. Due to pressure from the field on this and other forums our process engineers went back into the lab and re-developed some cutting parameters using an upper limit of 150 ipm for speed. So....in the newest revision operators manuals there is the standard cut charts for Finecut (with higher speeds) and there is the low speed Finecut charts that keep speeds at 150 ipm as a maximum. If someone needs the low speed cut charts I would e happy to email them. Jim Colt jim.colt@hypertherm.com

Not to be smart,but seems like is Hypertherm should make a smaller nozzle for slow speed fine cuts. Something to match the 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 machines. I only say that,because I have great success running 20-30 amp ones in my Easb Powercut 1600. (PT-37) Keeps the speed down on my table when cutting .035 etc.. 15 amp low end allows me use 20 or so amps output, to be in the 120/130 ipm range easy..I think a nozzle like what comes on the 30XP would be the ticket for smaller kerf, and slower speeds.The 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 might get in the way of any real benefit? I get about zero distortion/no dross, and tiny kerf with that setup. I also use exposed nozzles for the low amp tips. Last for ever because there is zero blow-back on the thin stuff. I have a Victor A-120 , and they have some 20-30 amp tips (20-30) are the same office size on the Thermal machines. Don't think there is a chance to have much success with the Victor's 30 amp low-end. Have not hooked that machine up yet, but had other Thermal units..

Anyway, just wanted to figure out why the 30XP has 25 amp fine tips, and the flagship 85 has 45 amp fine cuts? I just think there is some room for improvement in matching things up. (IMO)

[jimcolt]

The 30XP definitely has an advantage with narrower kerf width with its smaller FineCut nozzle orifice. There is no part in a Hypertherm called a tip....so when someone refers to a tip ...it is a nozzle on our systems.

When our engineers designed the consumables for the Powermax65, 85 and 105 torches they knew they needed to be able to cut down to 26 gauge materials with these systems, especially in mechanized cutting applications. They designed the Finecut consumables and the original cut speeds were fine for the in house testing in our development labs (machines have high accuracy to 400 ipm), however as the market for lower cost cnc machines expanded....especially with a lot of home built machines...the performance in terms of speed, acceleration and the ability to stay on the cut path (we call it "following error") gets more difficult as speed increases. Due to pressure from the field on this and other forums our process engineers went back into the lab and re-developed some cutting parameters using an upper limit of 150 ipm for speed. So....in the newest revision operators manuals there is the standard cut charts for Finecut (with higher speeds) and there is the low speed Finecut charts that keep speeds at 150 ipm as a maximum. If someone needs the low speed cut charts I would e happy to email them.

It is possible that we could develop a newer technology narrower kerf nozzle for the Duramax torch systems, however it is not currently in the works.
Jim Colt jim.colt@hypertherm.com

Not to be smart,but seems like is Hypertherm should make a smaller nozzle for slow speed fine cuts. Something to match the 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 machines. I only say that,because I have great success running 20-30 amp ones in my Easb Powercut 1600. (PT-37) Keeps the speed down on my table when cutting .035 etc.. 15 amp low end allows me use 20 or so amps output, to be in the 120/130 ipm range easy..I think a nozzle like what comes on the 30XP would be the ticket for smaller kerf, and slower speeds.The 25 amp low-end of the 85/65 might get in the way of any real benefit? I get about zero distortion/no dross, and tiny kerf with that setup. I also use exposed nozzles for the low amp tips. Last for ever because there is zero blow-back on the thin stuff. I have a Victor A-120 , and they have some 20-30 amp tips (20-30) are the same office size on the Thermal machines. Don't think there is a chance to have much success with the Victor's 30 amp low-end. Have not hooked that machine up yet, but had other Thermal units..

Anyway, just wanted to figure out why the 30XP has 25 amp fine tips, and the flagship 85 has 45 amp fine cuts? I just think there is some room for improvement in matching things up. (IMO)

[Brand X]

It is possible that we could develop a newer technology narrower kerf nozzle for the Duramax torch systems, however it is not currently in the works.

There was no info on running 20-30 amp tips for my Esab, but I decided it was worth trying. The results with smaller amp nozzles has a welcome addition with zero downsides, other then flat out speed.. Of course no fancy names for a low amp /low kerf/low speed thin cutting nozzles.

Nozzles. Speaking of which...what is the orifice size on the 45 fine cuts?.. The one 20 amp nozzles are about .028. and a great setup for my machine.. The Esab book wants you to run the 30-40 nozzles(30 amps), at stupid speeds. It's always better if companies give us some more options then less. Just adds range to the machine, and setup. Just like the lower amp output on the machine. Kilowatt if you prefer.


Maybe some machine do well at 400 IPM, But I bet it's sure easier on any machine to run at below 150 IPM. Then to always run at plus 400 ipm.... (IMO)

[jimcolt]

Well, if you are doing HVAC work and quality is less important than speed.....then that is why fast (450 or more ipm on 26 and 24 gauge) and no dross is important. If you don't care as much about speed....and quality is far more important, then maintain the physical cut height, reduce the current and slow down. A smaller nozzle orifice makes this work better.

Jim Colt

[Brand X]

Looking at the cut speeds, and kerf size,the larger nozzles don't seem to have much effect turning those speed. Very small kerf. Just thought a 25 amp fine cut for the 85/65 machine would add a bit more flexibility to a overall great setup.. Might even be nice for hand cutting Artwork, even with the larger hand torch on those units.. I bet you would sell quite a few of those nozzles..Or even if you called them tips..

[jimcolt]

Maybe we could offer them as tips under a different part number....then we could sell twice as many. Seriously.....we don't use the word "tip" as it has become a universal term for any consumable part on a welder or plasma....and adds to the confusion levels , especially for beginners. I have heard shields, nozzles and electrodes all called tips.....many many times.

I have been lobbying our torch and consumables team for a few years for lower power, lower speed, narrower kerf. They are starting to understand a bit better. Slower, lower power is hard for some engineers to understand in the world of cutting metal. They want to go faster, and with more noise and power.....and just figure the user will spend more and get a machine that can keep up! Our VOC (voice of customer) surveys that continuously help us find the best details of what the end user customers want....also do not indicate that there is much, if any demand for lower powered, narrower kerf consumables. I disagree and will eventually get lower power finer cut consumables in our mechanized air plasma systems.

Jim Colt

Looking at the cut speeds, and kerf size,the larger nozzles don't seem to have much effect turning those speed. Very small kerf. Just thought a 25 amp fine cut for the 85/65 machine would add a bit more flexibility to a overall great setup.. Might even be nice for hand cutting Artwork, even with the larger hand torch on those units.. I bet you would sell quite a few of those nozzles..Or even if you called them tips..

[CNCCAJUN]

Below said in sense of humor ! ! !

Well Jim, my thoughts on getting a company to produce a product or provide a service are a little different than your approach. I would present my case to the MARKETING GROUP . . . I'm sure they can strongly encourage engineering to look into it.

* Explain to them that a typical powerMAX85 sells for about $3,500.00.

* Just PlasmaCAM alone is selling well over a 1,000 machines a year . . . each one needs a powerMAX.

* Then you have the 25+ CNC Plasma Table makers, Dynatorch, Arclight, Tracker . . and the names go on. . .producing 1000s more.

* Almost forgot the multitude of home built & kit built units. I'll bet Tom @ CCNC has put at least 500 to 750 machines out there . .

Most of these companies are catering to shops like mine, "The New Backyard Woodshop" we saw grow out of the 50s.

Remind them that IBM owned the rights to DOS originally & made the bold statement that there would never be a need or demand for a personal computer. Guess they missed that boat . .

We all need and want as close to laser quality as we can get.

Could it be they don't want to create competition for the NEW LASER side of the business?

I am very happy with my Hypertherm powerMAX85, but I would be lying if I said I would not replace it in the morning with another machine that would give me a superior cut quality.

My guess is in a little shop somewhere there is a guy that has developed a set of consumables that will do just that & any day now we will hear Hypertherm & Victor yelling at the top of their lungs.

"IF YOU USE THOSE WE WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY"

Even the car companies finally realized, hey there is $$$$ in muscle cars after all.

[Brand X]

Sounds good on lobbying for some smaller nozzles. I found each system from Victor/Esab/Hypertherm,always has some simple area, where even a layman can see improvement in their system. Lets take Victor for example on their largest 1/3 phase machine. The 30 amp low end somewhat hampers a pretty cool option that can be applied for hand cutting. Not totally, but it could be improved on. Lets say I want to cut some art work by hand, get a tiny kerf.. I could get there with a Sl-60-100 torch, but it would be nicer to use the SL-40 torch on the machine.(Which will work on that machine) That torch only comes with 20 or 40 amp nozzles,so the 20 amp nozzles are out. Got to use 40 amp nozzles at 30 amps.. The Cutmaster 42 has a very narrow Kerf using 20 amp nozzles on SS,and thin Aluminum. Edge finish is excellent with that setup.. I have a Air-cut 15c, and it uses the tiny nozzles (About the same size a the 20 amp 42 nozzles)so it does what I need there. Just would be nice to buy a $250.00 torch, and not spend the $900.00 for a machine that can outperform the flagship model in their line.. Like 30 xp will do to a 85 in the same area.. The little ones have there place, but it would be nice that the big bigger units could keep up a bit..

[beefy]

+1 on the smaller nozzles. My Powermax 1250 goes down to 25 amps. I would LOVE narrower kerf nozzles that could be matched to this 25 amps and have a corresponding lower cut speed. Sometimes even the Finecut kerf width is too much and a narrower kerf would allow more intricate cuts, less heat input, distortion, etc.

Keith

[Kentuckyfarmer]

The slow speed setting solved my problems. I built my table to cut thicker material. 1/8 and up mainly. I had run across a bunch of 20 ga ss. Had a use but didn't get good cuts till used the slow settings.
Thanks
Mike

[jimcolt]

This kind of feedback always helps....the notes from this thread have been forwarded to our Powermax torch and consumables team....they have seen / heard all of this before, however I know that they have a lot of projects on their plate. Designing a set of consumables looks easy....however it involves a lot of lab testing, redesign, lab testing, redesign......in order to get the right mix of consumable life, cut edge angularity, staring reliability, widest dross free speed interval and more.

I suspect we will have (eventually) a smaller nozzle that could work on the Duramax torch equipped systems.

Jim Colt

[CNCCAJUN]

This kind of feedback always helps....the notes from this thread have been forwarded to our Powermax torch and consumables team....they have seen / heard all of this before, however I know that they have a lot of projects on their plate. Designing a set of consumables looks easy....however it involves a lot of lab testing, redesign, lab testing, redesign......in order to get the right mix of consumable life, cut edge angularity, staring reliability, widest dross free speed interval and more.

I suspect we will have (eventually) a smaller nozzle that could work on the Duramax torch equipped systems.

Jim Colt

Thanks Jim . . . also, tell them you would be the perfect "field tester" . . .