stainless quality issues

[racn3636]

We have a HPR260 xd with arc glide and edge-pro. this is being run on a torchmate x water table , using pro-nest software version: edge-pro 9_73. I have always had some issues with cutting stainless, mainly holes in stainless and hole size doesn't seem to matter. The holes always seem very rough and out of shape on the backside of the cut they are anything but round and are very jagged. 16ga 304 ss using 45 amp F5 N2 process and no water in the table. I'm going to try and use the 60 amp HDI setting for 12ga to 1/4" but any gauge smaller than 12 HDI isn't available. I tried contacting the tech service and they said the problems I have are a common issue. and asked if I talked to cam solutions to get spreadsheets modified. last time I did that it took forever. Also if this is a common issue why isnt there spreadsheets made allready to address these issues?

[jimcolt]

Not quite sure what you are doing wrong...impossible to tell from the pictures. You have a high definition class plasma system that has the ability to cut with very nice quality...but the cuts you are showing could be done with a hand torch!

Here are the steps to determine what is going on:

1. Your first source for service is the supplier. Likely that you purchased the complete system from Torchmate...they are trained to help you with issues such as this. Ugly holes are generally caused by a combination of incorrect cut parameters (could be gas flows, gas leaks, wrong or damaged consumables, incorrect pierce height, cut height, cut speeds, etc.). Hypertherm can help you with the Hypertherm components, but often cannot (over the phone anyway) solve mechanical motion issues)

2. I would first verify that motion was staying on path. A loose mechanical component can cause the issues you are showing. Install a fine tip pen in place of the torch and a piece of paper on the cutting bed and trace the parts (at the same parameters for speed) that you tried to cut them at. Inspect the tracings carefully to see if you have off path issues. You can also walk around the machine and check for backlash (loose gear issues, loose motor mounts, incorrect gear mesh, etc.)

3. Using the Plasma operators manual (about 300 pages!) as the guide, verify that inlet gas pressures are correct under flowing conditions with the consumables installed. There are procedures for leak checks on the inlet and secondary side of your system.


4. Using all new consumables do some test cuts after all of the above has been done.

Stainless cutting is a whole different process as compared to steel. Steel uses oxygen (with your system) to create an exothermic reaction with the plate, combined with the high themp of the plasma it cuts with precision and can do a great job on small features and holes. On stainless the exothermic process does not work (stainless does not easily oxidise) so the process relies on everything with motion, speed, gas flows, consumables, height control, etc., to get decent quality. Any one item that is off a bit will cause quality issues.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[jimcolt]

Another note: The heat shadows on the top of the holes indicate to me that the lead in may be too short, the cut speed on holes may be varying, and that the height is far too high. Are you sure someone did not change parameters in the ProNest software for the stainless cutting process? Overiding the preset parameters in this system can easily cause the issues you are showing. Lead ins, cut speeds, pierce eights, cut heights, etc when operated in auto set mode are all preset with the system you have. It is possible for the operator or programmer to go into the cut parameter files and make changes.....which will likely cause dramatic cut changes.

Jim Colt

[racn3636]

Jim
We did get the machine directly from torchmate. I have gone over this machine making sure everything is square and I have the proper gear mesh . The pre set parameters have not been changed. on those cuts I was using F5 and N2 for gas. I tried using N2 N2 and took the over travel from .25 to 0 and that seemd to improve the hole quality but would still like to see it get a little better. It seems right where the lead in comes to the edge of the hole is where it will leave a mark and I dont know if that can ever truly be fixed?? I emailed the tech service at hyperther and he said it was a common problem with stainless and should talk to cam sulutions to maybe make new spreadsheets. I dont understand if its a common problem why isnt there new spreadsheets allready ?
I have another question I have an order to cut some 3/8 titanium plate what process and gases would be best suited for this.
Thanks

[racn3636]

Jim I also have auto gas on our set up. Edge pro usually tells me when I have low gas pressures.

[jimcolt]

I'm not sure who in tech service you would have spoken with, however the cuts in your picture are far from common! Stainless does not cut nearly as well as plasma, but should look much nicer than the pics! I think the advice to trouble shoot the bad holes with ProNest makes a lot of sense.

Titanium can cut well with oxygen. You can start with steel cutting specs, but generally the cut speeds are much faster. Edges will be kind of rough, like aluminum. You mat want to wrap the torch leads and any exposed items in that area with a welding blanket....as titanium cutting produces a greenish flame that can damage components on the machine.


Jim Colt

[racn3636]

Update on my quality issues with the hyperther 260xd I just ran a test piece 1/4" 2x6" with 2 3/8 holes. 60 amp hdi f5/n2 and the quality tottaly sucks. Im going right from pro nest 2012 and the cut charts havent been touched. Hypertherms website says what great cut quality they have with this unit on stainless.. I dont see how!!! on top of it my support subsciption expired and unless I pay the 1050.00 bucks to renew for a year I cant get any help from them. here is a few pics of recent test piece showing top view bottom view and side view showing the severely beveled edge.

[jimcolt]

Again, These are not the cuts you would expect from a Hypertherm HPR system on stainless. I suggest that you schedule a service trip from either Torchmate or from Hypertherm since you are not able to solve the poor cut quality on your own. The pics you are showing show at least one hole that is extremely out of round. I suggest using that same program....mount a pen in your torch holder and duplicate that hole. You may find that it is out of round with the pen tracing as well, which could indicate a loose motor mount, a gearbox issue, a worn pinion gear, etc. The plasma will make a round hole if the motion is smooth, at the right speed, and stays on path....I suggest yours is not doing all of these things.

Further, the heat shadows I see on some of your cuts indicate that either the speed or the cut height is changing, which will cause more heat input, dross, and a wandering arc. I am more than happy to help you sort it out if you are willing to do some troubleshooting and to provide accurate feedback.

I was at Torchmate when your machine was built.....I have pictures of the first cuts (on steel) that were done with it and they were perfectly round and with nice quality, although they were on steel, not stainless. Stainless does not cut as nicely as steel with any plasma, however your system has the capability to cut far better than your pictures show!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[Gamelord]

I have a torchmate table and cut 3/8", 1/8" and 1/4" stainless quite often. I only have a TD cutmaster 101 and my holes are tons better than what you are showing. I do cut them slightly undersized and drill on the thicker pieces but on the thinner material it cuts fine enough that a quick cleanup is all they need for bolts.

I agree with Jim. The problem is either your settings or your plasma is wandering. I would double and triple check each and every gear/motor/belt etc... to make sure you have no wiggle or wandering or backlash or slippage. On your first top picture, I see what looks to me like wiggling in your gantry - I had the same issue a long time ago. It was caused by my drive shafts on my motor's being warn in the bushings and it was just enough wiggle in the gantry to cause these annoying wavy cuts after each change of direction. This will also play havoc on your holes. Once I fixed it so the gantry was rock solid, the cuts on everything improved 100%.

[racn3636]

There is absalutley no wiggle in the gantry and 0 backlash. If that was the problem I would see the same issues in mild steel and mild steel holes are awesome. That is why this is making no sense to me. Im positive its the setting in the spreadsheats. this machine is only 1 yr old and Ive been having the issues with stainless from day 1 !!! and have gotten hardly any good solid help from hypertherm !

[jimcolt]

I certainly am not arguing with you, however my 35+ years experience with plasma cutting tells me that the out of round hole you have pictured is not entirely the plasma torch's doing.

You can download the latest operators manual in .pdf form directly at the www.hypertherm.com website (go to downloads library) and compare the printed cut charts with the spreadsheets in your ProNest software, if there are differences then you can manually enter the data. Your system came with printed manuals as well.....compare the data in those to the spreadsheets. You can also upload the latest cut chart revisions directly from the Hypertherm website to your EdgePro cnc control.....or to a computer and then transfer via usb stick to the cnc control.

The ProNest software, like any software goes through upgrades and revisions continuously. Since your machine was manufactured there have been some changes in cut specs and even with consumables used for cutting stainless thinner than 3/8". This is complex software, and it is sold with an ongoing upgrade subscription that can bring you up to date on the latest technology. If you feel that it never worked correctly on stainless and that your charts were not correct for the time you bought it....then I'd be happy to speak with our people at CamSolutions (ProNest CAM software) to have them review it with you.

Keep in mind that the True Hole process for cutting good quality holes in carbon steel does not work on stainless or aluminum. That being said, I'm not sure I would be able to duplicate the terrible cuts your are getting on stainless.....so something there is definitely wrong.

If you want me to have our ProNest people work with you, forward me your contact information to my direct email, jim.colt@hypertherm.com

Best regards Jim

There is absalutley no wiggle in the gantry and 0 backlash. If that was the problem I would see the same issues in mild steel and mild steel holes are awesome. That is why this is making no sense to me. Im positive its the setting in the spreadsheats. this machine is only 1 yr old and Ive been having the issues with stainless from day 1 !!! and have gotten hardly any good solid help from hypertherm !

[jimcolt]

racn3636,

I have been in touch with our people at Cam Solutions as well as tech service at Hypertherm. They are ready and willing to work with you to sort out your issues, however without any contact info there is nothing we can do! Please get back to me with your info, as well as installed equipment list....and we'll help get your machine cutting as it was designed.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[racn3636]

jim sent you a pm with all the info

[jimcolt]

Jason,

I did not know that this was a production machine at Lincoln Electric. You will likely be hearing from our tech support people soon.....they may want to verify some info on software rev. levels, etc. It may be necessary to reinstate the software support on the Cam Solutions software in order to get the latest stainless process (released last Novemeber if I remember correctly) up to spec. I have forwarded a not to Torchmate Tech service as the first line responsibility for support (entire system) is from them. Regardless, I'm sure we will get to the bottom of it.

Jim Colt

jim sent you a pm with all the info

[racn3636]

Jim I have been in contact with torchmate also and they say they are getting same results. Im pretty sure I recieved the latest stainless update in november. The last update I installed was april 26th this year. I understand our support subscription has expired but this has been an ongoing issue from day one and like you mentioned the latest stainless cut charts were supposed to help wich they did a little but you see in the pictures what i'm still getting

[racn3636]

Jim
thank you for your help btw

[jimcolt]

Thanks for working with us. Our software and tech guys will get to the bottom of it from their perspective...we also have Dennie at Torchmate working from the machine side.

Jim Colt

Jim
thank you for your help btw

[racn3636]

I have been in contact with dennie and sent him a copy of the file I was cutting along with my pnca file. hopefully we can figure it out.

[racn3636]

Jim
Any luck on stainless issues?

[blueled]

looks more like motion - as though the torch was moving too fast and dragging the arc. Those smaller holes in the pictures, what is the diameter and what is the thickness of the material again?

[racn3636]

Well after giving Hypertherm all my info they say they are not having any better luck than I have had and that these results are not abnormal !!!!